Author Topic: Non-TV Receiving Equipment  (Read 826 times)

Offline Nigel 61

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Non-TV Receiving Equipment
« on: December 27, 2018, 07:53:59 AM »
Hello everyone,

Been LLF for the last couple of months now and intend to stay that way,
As this is my first post I would like some advice on Non-TV Receiving Equipment,
What I mean by this is that I have the Amazon TV fire stick plugged in to my TV ( BBC iPlayer removed of course),
I have pre-installed apps, ITV Hub, All 4, My 5, UKTV player etc, don't know if it's been brought up on the forum previously but I've noticed there is a potential for viewing a live feed on the ITV Hub (not that I would ever consider using it) as it's got a Now and Next feature built in so my question is if in the unlikely event of a goon obtaining a search warrant would they be able to check something such as a fire stick for a possible live feed as surely this isn't classed as TV receiving equipment, do you have the right to refuse them to do this?

The reason I say Non-TV Receiving Equipment is that it doesn't have the ability to accept an aerial plug like a normal TV does,

What are your thoughts on this?
All replies greatly appreciated.

Offline CountryBoy

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Re: Non-TV Receiving Equipment
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2018, 08:09:07 AM »
IMO having a Firestick is no different at all to having internet access, which virtually every household now does and proves nothing at all about receiving licensable content.
In the hypothetical situation that they searched my property and tested such a device I would make it very clearly known (and ask the police to record my comments to the effect) that it was used to watch non-BBC on-demand content only.
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Offline Nigel 61

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Re: Non-TV Receiving Equipment
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2018, 01:33:20 PM »
Thanks for the reply CountryBoy,

I'm not too worried about a SW as I would never open my front door to a goon anyway and always ensure I keep my TV away from prying eyes however I was just curious as to where I'd stand if the unthinkable happened and was asked if they could test my Firestick, if the goon were to find a live feed on the ITV Hub then would that possibly lead to a prosecution for evading?
Having said that though the program that is being broadcast live could be started from the very beginning IE 20 or 30 minutes earlier so you would NOT in fact be viewing live anyway would you?

Watching catch-up TV is not a problem but I think the availability of the live feed could possibly have disasterous consequences for someone who is trying to be LLF.

There's an option I've considered just to be on the safe side and that's to delete anything on the device that is capable of receiving a live feed IE the ITV Hub app itself.

I also have a CCTV camera installed and pointing at my front door so I'm always ready for any undesirable person coming onto my property and trying to catch me off guard.

Thanks again for your advice.




Offline CountryBoy

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Re: Non-TV Receiving Equipment
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2018, 02:28:48 PM »
Availability of a live feed is not enough in law to require a TV licence. If it was then every person using the internet or a mobile phone in an unlicensed property would be guilty of an offence.
You may find the Rudd case of interest - please either search these forums or my blog for much more information.
To briefly summarise, it is for TV Licensing to prove that a TV receiver had actually been used in an unlicensed property, not just that it was available for use. However, in the absence of any other explanation, the court may infer that unlicensed use was taking place. That’s why it’s always very important to make it clear that equipment is being used for a non-licensable purpose.
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Offline Nigel 61

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Re: Non-TV Receiving Equipment
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2018, 04:28:10 PM »
Cheers for the link to the Jeffrey Rudd case and for your valuable points,

Just to quote one paragraph in the blog:

'It therefore follows that TV Licensing has a weak case unless it actually catches a person in the act of receiving TV programmes without a valid TV licence'.

That particular sentence caught my eye because we all know TV licencing relies heavily on self-incrimination in order to secure a conviction for evasion and that is a good reason in itself why no one should allow these vermin into their homes.

Thanks again for the info CountryBoy and for making me feel more at ease.





Offline squirt-magoo

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Re: Non-TV Receiving Equipment
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2018, 07:26:25 PM »
I think i would turn the router off so there was access to the internet, or maybe turn off the electricity. I am not a customer of the  (censored) and wouldn't like to be funding the privilege of getting stitched up.

Offline CountryBoy

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Re: Non-TV Receiving Equipment
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2018, 08:06:00 PM »
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That particular sentence caught my eye because we all know TV licencing relies heavily on self-incrimination in order to secure a conviction for evasion and that is a good reason in itself why no one should allow these vermin into their homes.

I totally concur with that viewpoint.
It has to be said that people can also self-incriminate on the doorstep without a goon setting foot in their property.
My advice is for the occupier of an unlicensed property to carefully identify any unsolicited caller at their door and to avoid casual chit-chat with anyone who is not positively identified. If in doubt a simple "not today, thanks" [close door] does the trick.
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Offline Nigel 61

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Re: Non-TV Receiving Equipment
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2018, 10:32:05 PM »
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I think i would turn the router off so there was access to the internet, or maybe turn off the electricity. I am not a customer of the  (censored) and wouldn't like to be funding the privilege of getting stitched up.

I've come across a similar comment on one of the YouTube goon videos where someone suggested switching off the power so that when they come in they are unable to test your equipment. You may have something of importance there and assuming you are legally within your rights to refuse the use of your own electricity consumption for someone else's benefit then by all means use it as a weapon against them.

Just before doing that though I would check out to see if there is any possible repercussions and would such an action be seen as an obstruction?

Always best to do your research first rather than just relying on gut instinct.


Online Lord Hall-Hall

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Re: Non-TV Receiving Equipment
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2018, 10:46:53 PM »
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I've come across a similar comment on one of the YouTube goon videos where someone suggested switching off the power so that when they come in they are unable to test your equipment.

The could be classed as evasion of a search warrant. You have to offer reasonable assistance for them to examine television receivers once they have been identified. Turning off the electricity could hinder their search, and testing, so would be evasion. The catch22 for TVL is they cannot identify a television receiver until after they have tested it.

However this misses the point of search warrants from the point of TVL. They view the warrant as a means to enter your home and force an interview under caution. The "goon who must not be named" said this when caught by the Daily Mail undercover reporter earlier this year, and this behaviour has been seen in a couple of the very rare videos on youtube. If the victim does not comply, they then start talking about evasion of the search warrant.
"This is what you do all the time.  What you do is you threaten people.
 You always threaten people." - John Sweeney, senior BBC journalist.

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Offline jimspurn

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Re: Non-TV Receiving Equipment
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2018, 12:51:46 AM »
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The could be classed as evasion of a search warrant. You have to offer reasonable assistance for them to examine television receivers once they have been identified. Turning off the electricity could hinder their search, and testing, so would be evasion. The catch22 for TVL is they cannot identify a television receiver until after they have tested it.

However this misses the point of search warrants from the point of TVL. They view the warrant as a means to enter your home and force an interview under caution. The "goon who must not be named" said this when caught by the Daily Mail undercover reporter earlier this year, and this behaviour has been seen in a couple of the very rare videos on youtube. If the victim does not comply, they then start talking about evasion of the search warrant.

Why must GREEDY Boy Doyle not be named? Are the heavens going to open up :chinscratch:

When there is no evidence of evasion found then the BBC bully squad AKA TVL must stack the deck in their favor, so obstruction is the only way forward.
Best not to supply the ammunition for your firing squad IMHO.

Lets be clear on this BBC, I do not condone breaking the law.... Subscription is your future...... My Firewalls block all things BBC...So do you feel lucky - Goon....

Offline Nigel 61

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Re: Non-TV Receiving Equipment
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2018, 06:05:52 AM »
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They view the warrant as a means to enter your home and force an interview under caution.

What they don't tell you though is because this comes under PACE 1984 any interview given is purely voluntary on your part and can be terminated at anytime by you asking them to leave.

The term 'You have the right to remain silent' comes to mind here  :rolleyes:

Offline Nigel 61

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Re: Non-TV Receiving Equipment
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2018, 07:41:36 AM »
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When there is no evidence of evasion found then the BBC bully squad AKA TVL must stack the deck in their favor, so obstruction is the only way forward.
Best not to supply the ammunition for your firing squad IMHO.

I'm just wondering assuming you provide them with all reasonable assistance in checking your TV receiving equipment, Eg handing them the remote control etc, then in the absence of them being able to find a live feed, what if they asked you to sign the TVL178 form and you refused?

Would they be able to accuse you of obstruction because of this?

After all you've already done your bit up to that point but reluctantly of course.


Offline pugster

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Re: Non-TV Receiving Equipment
« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2018, 08:26:00 AM »
afaik 'obstruction' can only take place if you dont allow the warrant to be served (i.e them getting in ) or obstruct them in the testing of TV equipment.
'reasonable assistance' is simply you handing them the remote and the instruction manual (if you have it which most ppl dont).

not signing a confession 178 is not obstruction -after all who would sign something they dont agree with?

just remember the warrant does not cover them messing with PC equipment you may have connected to your TV - simply password protect your login and if they ask refuse  (if they then proceed to mess with it afaik they are breaking the computer misuse act, data protection act and possibly other laws (other ppl here have more knowledge than me)).

Offline Huttonwhitewash

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Re: Non-TV Receiving Equipment
« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2018, 08:33:11 AM »
In law, there is nothing to stop you using a TV receiver - as a RADIO SET provided that is all it is used for.
This is what I call, the "cliff edge" of the law in this area - there are other ways of not being as close to the edge.
 I would not recommend it, as there are simpler ways of listening to the radio, & never give Goons an inch, as a mile will be taken by them. :biggrin:
No dealer notification, BBC Also on the way out!, Crapita (The BBC's Bully boys), heading for bankruptcy, shares falling like a stone, people now far more aware of the TRUE rules concerning the TVL - would any of this happened, without TVLR? - Amount I have so far denied the BBC - over £6000, can anyone beat that?

Offline Nigel 61

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Re: Non-TV Receiving Equipment
« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2018, 08:54:44 AM »
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afaik 'obstruction' can only take place if you dont allow the warrant to be served (i.e them getting in ) or obstruct them in the testing of TV equipment.
'reasonable assistance' is simply you handing them the remote and the instruction manual (if you have it which most ppl dont).

I agree, also after conducting their tests I would ask them if they were satisfied with the level of assistance I had provided them with and make sure I video their response, this could ultimately serve as a good defence should they decide to pursue anything in court.

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not signing a confession 178 is not obstruction -after all who would sign something they dont agree with?

Sound advice pugster  :clap: